Saturday, July 10, 2010

Standing for the Truth in a Baptist Circle...

Michelle is a student at Dallas Baptist University. Her parents attend Sovereign Joy Community Church. Periodically Michelle drops in for a service and I get to chat with her. She is a hard working student who has a passion to see God glorified in everything she does. This past week, Michelle told me about two desturbing posts in the forum section of The Baptist Standard (The Texas Baptist News Journal). She responded by writing a letter. I thank God that this young woman is standing for truth. I am posting her letter in hopes to encourage other young people to stand up for righteousness and say something when you see truth being maligned. Good work Michelle!

A word from Michelle to the Fish With Trish Blog Readers:

I wrote this letter in response to a few opinions that were stated by the readers of The Baptist Standard. In essence, these readers were upset with the BGCT for excommunicating Royal Lane Baptist Church because the church was allowing practicing homosexuals to be members and serve in leadership positions. They argued that homosexuals can be Christians too and we should follow our Savior’s example by having an all-inclusive love. (If you’d like to read for yourself exactly what was said, click here. The two I responded to were "As Inclusive as Jesus" and "Unanswered Questions") The letters greatly offended me because of just how untrue they were! They were misrepresenting the nature and justice of God! So I decided that I would write my own letter, praying that whatever truth it revealed would be a witness to these misguided professing Christians. Here's the letter:

“Churches today get so hung up on coming across as narrow-minded. The bottom line is a Christian cannot live a life of unrepentant sin, no matter what the sin is, because that proves him or her to be a false convert. The Bible is overwhelmingly clear on the issue of homosexuality. It is wicked. (1 Cor. 6:9-10) Certainly Christ is inclusive in that He doesn't turn any sinner away. However, the sinners surrounding Christ are repentant and called to live holy lives. (Lev. 19:2) Every single Christian sins daily; none of us are better than another. The difference, though, between a true heaven-bound Christian and one who is not is the attitude of repentance, knowing each sin grieves the Holy Spirit and must be conquered; the heart has changed and we no longer desire those things which are against God. (Rom. 7:14-25) Yes, you can be a Christian, loved so much by the Father, and struggle with homosexuality. It is a sin like any other. Yet, we MUST understand that you cannot be a Christian while knowingly living in and sanctioning sin, including homosexuality, in your life. We are to flee immorality! We are to glorify God with our bodies! (1 Cor. 6:18-20) Christ did not die so that we can do as we please knowing we have some sort of "blanket-forgiveness." (Rom. 6) It's not about how much the Church loves homosexuals. It is about how much the Church loves our just and holy God and desires to see Him honored and glorified.”

Michelle B.
Student, Dallas Baptist University


Billy said...


Jameka Williams said...

All Glory to God!

Azou said...

So why exactly is homosexuality a sin? Beyond "Because God said so." I don't see a compelling reason that doesn't make other sexualities just as bad.

Disease? Applies to all forms of sex, and educated adults can take precautions. Either way, it's a personal risk and doesn't harm anyone that decides not to participate.

Slipper Slope? A firm line has been drawn at consent. Children, animals lack the understanding of sexuality to give consent, thus fears of a slippery slope are grasping at anything to condemn the LGBT community. Polygamy and incest will have to be dealt with on an individual basis, but neither are that harmful.

Mental health? A little common sense would tell you that someone who risks being taunted just for holding hands with a loved one would suffer from mental anguish. And that's not all: denial of rights such as marriage and adoption and even risk of disowning by parents. You can't be shocked a person like that might be in need of therapy.

Is your God that irritated that some people don't function normally?

Yeah, Michelle can jump in a lake. I'm tired of these nonsensical hatemongers.

Susan said...

Well said, Michelle.

Fish With Trish said...

In the words of Cyndi Lauper...

I see your true colors shining through, Azou.

"Michelle can jump in a lake."

Who's the real hatemonger here?

Azou said...

And now, class, we notice how neither Nelson nor Trish can actually answer my question. Instead, they dodge it and try to steer it in another direction. Is it because they honestly have no good reason to rally against homosexuality?

Oh yes, Trish, true colors are indeed shining!

So, is there a reason beyond an appeal to authority?

Unknown said...

Christian beliefs about sin are rooted in the character of God as revealed in the Scriptures. If there is no God, or if He has not spoken to us supernaturally in the Bible, then our conversation about sin becomes problematic.

On the flip side, if there is no God, or if He has not revealed himself and his character to us, then you cannot tell a criminal it is wrong for him to kill you and your family and take everything you own.

BathTub said...

It's as sinful as eating shellfish.


Mixing fabrics.


Men shaving their beards off.


Women wearing Men's clothing.

and so on, and so on.

But today's pick and mix Christians only follow what they feel like following.

Susan said...

You asked.. "Why is homosexuality a sin?"

What is your definition of sin?

Azou said...

Excellent question! We have to assume there is some reason for it, yes? Or is God just arbitrarily making up rules for the sake of it?

Several of the commandments have practical reasons behind them: murder and theft reduce the quality of everyone's lives as we're otherwise left to defend ourselves from stronger groups. By organizing a society that punishes murder and theft, we increase the quality of life for everyone in said society.

God has to have a reason for doing things, right? Why are two guys in a loving relationship a bad thing? Just because he said so? That doesn't even fly amongst us mortals.

Azou said...

No Heath, because not everything automatically has a good reason. You're so utterly helpless without an imaginary father figure that you can't even comprehend this.

Moral absolutism does not work because the world is not static. We learn new things all the time that force us to reevaluate the current standards. Like, I dunno, the fact that there's six BILLION people on this planet and making homosexuality acceptable is not going to put us at a risk of extinction. I'm sure that was the reasoning the writers of the Bible had back when they wrote, but time marches and such issues aren't pressing.

Your HIV claim would make heterosexuality unacceptable as well. Without going into messy details, lesbians have the lowest chances of spreading HIV.

Heath The Blogless said...

Azuo you are wrong again celibate people have the lowest rate of HIV. and Married people who have been celibate before marriage. It is not just a question of homosexuality but a question of sexual purity in general. Homosexuality is just the sacred cow that is not allowed to be questioned. But God is against all forms of sexual immorality and the church should be also.

And like I said people can and will justify anything to themselves and is the exact reason God has given us moral absolutes. One of the greatest ones of those is to have no other gods before Him.

Heath The Blogless said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Azou said...

Not posting a reply until Heath's reply is removed for violating the no-linking rule.

Play fair, Trish.

Fish With Trish said...

I am playing fair.

"When deciding which comments to publish, we TYPICALLY use the following guidelines (NOTE: THESE RULES CAN BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE)"

Azou said...

Subject to change, not "enforced for some, but not others." Or can I post links relevant to the conversation?

Fish With Trish said...

"can I post links relevant to the conversation?"

You can try but it's not a guarantee that they'll get through.

Heath The Blogless said...

If you would like you can remove my old post and put this to replace it.

Further to my last post. GMHC have a white paper on HIV risks for Lesbians. (Warning - it does contain descriptions of a Sexual nature)
Celibacy before marriage is always the best option, and the more to the point it is the way that God wants it.

Just Google GMHC_lap_whitepaper_0609.pdf
For the white paper.

FYI GMHC stands for - Gay Men’s Health Crisis.

Fish With Trish said...

Thanks Heath. That was very nice of you. I have removed your post.

Azou said...

Very big of you, Heath. Thank you for the gesture.

My point is not that they're immune to HIV or that the risk is minute, but that all three major sexualities have risks for STDs, and thus it's not a very legitimate reason to exclude some but think the other is okay because they'll wait until marriage. Can't we make the exact same argument for homosexuals?

You may bring up reproduction, but even if we ignore the many childless couples that the world seems to have no problem with, there are many children with no families that a homosexual couple could support.

To sum it up...

-STDs are a concern for everyone. It bring it up as a condemnation for just one group is unreasonable when they can take the same precautions as anyone else. Gays can check their partner for HIV like anyone else.

-The human population is immense, and we have plenty of people willing to increase our numbers. Childless couples are thus not a concern. Gays can also adopt, as there is certainly no shortage of orphans.

There is no practical reason to condemn homosexuality. It is entirely faith-based hate.

Heath The Blogless said...

To sum up
- STD's are not a concern for those who are abstinent before marriage,
- God condemns all sexual immorality not just Homosexuality.
- Because we want to do what we want, we like to justify our actions saying, it's OK there is no grounds to condemn that, it's not hurting anyone.
- Situation based ethics leads to no ethics. eg abortion as a means of birth control."because my life would be harder with a baby so I will murder it. After all it is my body and my choice."

ExPatMatt said...

Taxandrian wins this thread via Technical Knockout.

Azou said...

1. Agreed: Abstinence is the best to avoid STDs. But all sexualities can do it, so why does heterosexuality get a pass while others are forbidden?

2. Appeal to authority. A leader must still have a reason for their declarations. You are not simply right because you lead, but rather you lead because you've shown a consistent pattern of well-reasoned decision making.

3. Good point, Heath! When two men are in a relationship, whom is being hurt? You say STDs, but that is a calculated, personal risk. If you do not want an STD, you stay out of risky relationships! Nobody that wants zero risk of a disease is at risk here.

Why is it wrong?

4. Absolutism stifles us. Women would still be treated as property, different ethnicities would still suffer as 2nd Class Citizens and so forth. We need to constantly analyze what we do as a society and correct our behaviors based on what we've learned.

Is this prone to mistakes? Sure. But, unlike Absolutism, Relativism is self-correcting. If we choose the wrong "absolute morals," we'll be holding back humanity with no way to fix it.

Angela Belt-Newcom said...

Bless you, Michelle! You did an excellent job!

Anonymous said...

To any closeted LGBT folks out there:

There is nothing wrong with your sexuality, any shame you feel is just a cultural thing, you can let it go and be loved for who you are.

Anonymous said...

To any closeted LGBT folks out there:

There is nothing wrong with your sexuality, any shame you feel is just a cultural thing, you can let it go and be loved for who you are.