Sorry for the delays in my responses. I've been out of the state for speaking engagements.
Logic Lad said, "Trish, i have only been reading Ray's blog for a little while and i have to support G.E.'s point here, Ray insists on using straw man fallacies and clearly incorrect statements in his posts, he even repeats the same statements after he has been corrected, once could be a mistake but twice is deliberate, deliberatly saying something you know to be false in lieing."
I'm not sure what he repeats or where he uses strawman fallacies but I'm sure if he is in the wrong about something he would correct it. I know Ray. And I know that he cares about truth and he cares (as do I) where you will spend all eternity. Ray doesn’t try to come to you with persuasive speech—he just comes with Gospel truth.
Logic Lad said, "I am sure he is completly accurate in his quoting of scripture, however that is not what GE is talking about. besides i am sure there is something in the bible about the devil using scripture to mislead, i am not suggesting that Ray is evil, arrogant and opininated perhaps but not evil, but simplt because he can quote scripture does not mean that he always tells the truth."
True. It is very important to quote scripture accurately and in its full context and to the best of my knowledge Ray does that. So I'm sorry I'm not quite sure what he would be lying about. He is a simple man, just using scripture. Perhaps you’re argument is with scripture and not Ray.
Logic Lad said, "Again with this prove that x is false, you are making, or supporting an extraordinary claim, it is for you to display evidence that it is true, untill then i will continue to act in all ways as if it is false, otherwise we are stuck back or Bertrands Teapot."
I have made my arguments in past posts. I have stated in previous posts that it is impossible for you to reason and have an intelligible conversation with out hypocritically borrowing from the biblical worldview in order to make sense of your own. Remember, you have to assert that there
is a God in order to
deny one. And don’t forget that Christ is the only answer to your problem with sin. He is the only one that can present you blameless before God. Listen to your conscience. You know you have broken the 10 commandments. You have lied. I’m sure you have looked with lust. James 2:10 says, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." That means you are in deep trouble when you stand before God on judgment day--when you will be judged according to your works.
For Maxx, Thanks for adding the link to Penn's video. Maxx said, "To me, that is what Trish was explaining to G.E. as why she must warn him of the wrath of God"
Yes. I posted his quote because it seemed to me that Penn (being an atheist) sees the importance and understands whey the Christian would be compelled to share their faith. And he can’t understand why the Christian wouldn’t warn people if he believes they are going to hell. I do this because I am compelled to. I do this because the bible says that if sinners don't repent and cling to Christ they will perish. I do this because I was blind and now I see. The world makes total sense to me now. God's fingerprints are everywhere. In the snowflake that falls from the sky. In the child that is born and breaths for the first time. I see His fingerprints when I'm tempted to sin and I'm convicted by His Spirit. I do what I do because I've come to realize that Christ is the only one who can bring peace between man and God. That Christ is the only one that can make you hunger and thirst for righteousness. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Christ is the only one who can reconcile us to God.
“Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.” Col 1:21-23
When I read about the dead being judged it compels me to action:
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev 20: 11-15
Logic Lad said, “I apologise for making it look like i was accusing Trish of lieing, having carefully reread her origianl post it is clear what her meaning is. I shall take away the lesson that i should really read what is written. Having watched the video i fully appreciate the sentiment that if you believe then you have to do as much as you can to help those you percieve as lost. I will try to bare this in mind when addressing future posts. I understand why you feel the need to convert people, however that does not mean that i have to agree with you..."
Thanks, Logic Lad. I understand.
Logic Lad continues, "...I believe that religion leads society into horrible dark places, what would it say of me if i did not try to protect others from it?”
You’re right. Religion does. But
Christianity doesn’t. The God of Christianity is just and true, kind and loving. Everything He does is right.
“He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.
For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:10-12)
Get Educated said, "He might even mislead my reading by interpreting the Bible the wrong way."
True. Ray is just a man. He is not perfect nor does he claim to be. I'm not perfect either--just forgiven by a good God. Here's what I suggest...if you can't read his bible and you won't take me up on the offer for a free copy, then perhaps you would purchase a bible with no commentary. You can also go to BibleGateway.com and read the entirety of the Bible online. Could I send you one without commentary? Would you read it??
Get Educated said, "...strawman. Something made to "appear" like the right thing, but that is much easier to attack and defeat (like fighting against a man made of straw)."
I'm very familiar with this type of argument. Here's my question to you, is the biblical account regarding man being created by God and being made male and female, not reliable? The text in Genesis 1:27 says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." I believe this. I take this account as a literal account. As an accurate account. As one that is true. There are many theists that have gone ahead and said, “Well, evolution is a fine theory, but God must have created it.” But I reject this. The Bible doesn’t teach this. And if we can tamper, disregard and twist the very first chapter of the Bible then we might as well disregard, tamper and twist the rest of the Bible.
Belief in evolutionary theory is a matter of sheer faith. And dogmatic belief in any naturalistic theory is no more “scientific” than any other kind of religious faith. Evolution is a philosophy.
Did you hear
about Michael Ruse? He's an evolutionist who testified in the 1980's at the Arkansas creationism trial (McLean v. Arkansas). During the trial, he claimed that creationism is a religion because it is grounded in unproven philosophical assumptions. But Darwinism is a science, he said, "because it requires no philosophical or religious presuppositions". Ruse has since admitted that he was
wrong, and he now acknowledges that evolution “is metaphysically based”—grounded in unproven beliefs that are no more “scientific” than the set of beliefs on which creationism is based. See Tom Woodward,
“Ruse Gives Away the Store: Admits Evolution Is a Philosophy” on the “Origins” Web site.G.E. said, "So, even if you were truly able to convince me that "the Bible does not lie", Ray does. So, if by implication of the Bible not lying evolution were false, then it would be false. Yet, it would still not be the same as the strawman Ray talks about."
What matters here is that the Word of God is true. Ray is just human and so am I. We are not perfect. But "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.” Prov 30:5. God's word is reliable and trust worthy. He can be in error about things, as can I, but if he is giving you scripture…then your argument is with scripture and not with Ray. Again, we can't convince you about this...we can only plead with you and say look into the mirror of the 10 commandments and see how you measure up. You are guilty. You need the only one who can present you blameless to God, namely...Christ!
Here's a close up and not as blurry.
