Monday, March 30, 2009

This just in...literally!

Just made it through a pretty large hailstorm. Well...let's just put it this way...I've never seen hail this size in my life. I guess I had a pretty cush cush life living in California, where everyday the weather was like Disneyland. Then I moved to Texas and everything changed. Tonight proved that everything is truly bigger in Texas and this storm produced golf ball (or a bit bigger) size hail.
It was a beautiful storm though. I love it when storms come--even if I am enjoying them from the window in my closet. Storms demonstrate the majesty and greatness of God Almighty--the God of the Bible. The God who made the earth and everything in it. The God who is sovereignly in control of all things, the God who is able to able to create the world in only 6 days. The God Who sent His Son to die for sinners so that sinners might be forgiven. The God who is rich in mercy. That's my God. I wish I could describe Him to you.Here's a close up and not as blurry.

"But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants." Exodus 9:34

To my atheist friends, please don't continue to harden your heart for another minute towards God Almighty. There is still time to repent and turn to the Living God--the one Who is able to give you everlasting life. The one Who is able to forgive your transgressions and make you as white as snow. "But there is forgiveness with You,That You may be feared. Psalm 130:4

36 comments:

amontoya said...

You have a window in your closet!? Wow.

I have always loved the storms here in Texas. The biggest hail I've seen was quarter size, though.

Our God is an awesome God!

Jason and Vanessa said...

Wow Gloria dropped Eli off today and told me we had hail last night I had no clue. I can't believe how big that was. We love yall and are glad your all safe!
Love
Vanessa

Gayla said...

We got the hail at our house, too, but it wasn't as big as that. I've seen it like that before, though. The older I get (and I've lived in Texas all my life) the more nervous I get about our lovely spring weather. ::sigh::

Wretched Sinner said...

Trish,
That is absolutely amazing. I have seen (and been caught in) quite a few storms, but never something like that.

Every time I see a powerful storm I too am reminded of how amazing our God is. But like you I can't even begin to describe His dominion. Can you imagine being on the boat with Jesus as described Matthew 8 where He rebukes the storm? Wow, what I mighty God we serve!
-Mike

Melissa Spence said...

That size hail hit Austin last week, you won't believe the number of damaged cars that got returned to Stephen's work (Hertz). Crazy! We're like you from Cali, so this TX weather is quite different - but I love the storms. On my way to work this morning I probably saw 25 lightning bolts in the sky.

Fish with Trish said...

Amontoya, Nope...I wish I had a window in my closet. Wouldn't that be cool!?

Vanessa, you Texans can sleep through anything I tell ya!

Gayla, I know. I could not believe how hard it came down. Emilio ran outside to get our car and pulled it in the garage but we got a dent on the roof. No broken windows though so that's good.

Mike, good to hear from you brother!

Melissa, glad you're still here, friend.

Taxandrian said...

Um, Trish....wasn't it God Himself who hardened the Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't give in throughout the Plagues, up to the point that God even went killing all of Egypt's firsborn?

That said: is it OK if God kills babies?

fisherwoman said...

wow, we had no rain...nothing!

Rev. 16: 21 "And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.(about 75 pounds!) Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. "

Fish with Trish said...

Taxandrian, the answers to these questions are quite simple:

Yes. God harden Pharoah's heart, yet Pharoah also hardened his own heart.

Yes. God did send a plague that would kill all the firstborn in Egypt.

Yes. It is "OK" for God to kill babies if that is according to His will.

So now for the question, are you in favor of always preserving the life of infants?

Fish with Trish said...

Rev. 16: 21...Wow GREAT verse. Very powerful.

Quasar said...

Fisherwoman wrote:
"Rev. 16: 21 "And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.(about 75 pounds!) ..."

Density of water: 0.9167 g/cm³
75 pounds = 35 kilograms = 35000 grams.
Volume of individual hailstone = 35000/0.9167 = 38180cm^3

Therefore:
Radius of hailstone assuming spherical shape and solid ice
= Cubic Root(38180/(4/3Pi))
= Cubic Root(12153)
= 10.49

So the hailstones mentioned, if they were solid ice, would be about 21cm (8.2 inches) in diameter. Interesting. I have experienced hail of that size, but it was riddled with air pockets so it was a much lower weight.

Logic Lad said...

Wow

So if god says it's ok then it is moral and right to do it.

Cool

Where can I buy some slaves? as long as they are not of my tribe holding another as a slave is fine, according to the bible.

I am not intending to answer for Taxadrian, but i will answer for myself, no i don't believe in always preserving any life, there can always be reasons why it may be better to let someone of any age die.

Your question surprises me, I have never seen the topic come up, but you question seems to suggest that you are not against abortion?

I am fairly sure you are going to go down the do as god says not as he does route, surely the ultimate arbiter for morallity should be the ultimate paragon of that morality.

As to the killing of the first born of Egpypt, surely any god that has the power to do this could have found a way of convincing the pharoah that didn't involve mass murder, or he could have simply magically moved all his choosen to a better place, why have to go down the serial killer route?

Taxandrian said...

@ Trish:

Wow. Let me get this straight: you have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with God killing babies?

Really?

Are you telling me now that it's perfectly OK for you that babies are being killed? And you even worship the killer?

That's heavy.

Fish with Trish said...

Taxandrian, so it's okay for people to kill infants but not okay for God??

Now for the question that you didn't answer...

Are you in favor of always preserving the life of infants?

Taxandrian said...

Trish,

Terribly sorry, but I'm not interested in the red herring. So it's no use trying to turn the tables. I'm asking for YOUR position on a certain issue, remember?

It is noted, though, that you seem a bit uncomfortable answering this question, which after all, is a pretty simple one:

Do you think it's OK that God killed all Egyptian firstborn? Yes or no, and motivate your answer.

Thanks in advance.

Greetings,
Tax

Fish with Trish said...

Taxandrian, the answers to these questions are quite simple (I will repeat it):

Yes. God harden Pharoah's heart, yet Pharoah also hardened his own heart.

Yes. God did send a plague that would kill all the firstborn in Egypt.

Yes. It is "OK" for God to kill babies if that is according to His will.

So now for the question to you:

Are you in favor of always preserving the life of infants?

Taxandrian said...

Trish,

This is quite astonishing! I've asked this question three times now, and still you haven't given me a clear answer.
Yet, on the other hand, you insist on me answering a questions that has nothing to do whatsoever with the topic.

But maybe this is my own fault, and I just didn't express myself clearly enough:

So, Trish, to clarify:

I don't need to know whether it's 'OK' for God to kill babies (obviously it is, otherwise He wouldn't have done it).
No, what I would like to know is whether YOU think it's ok that God kills babies.

So Trish, do you? Or not? Are you comfortable with the knowledge that God killed babies? Or not?

And, like I've told before; whether or not I'm in favor of preserving the life of infants has NOTHING to do with your answer to this question; that's why I refuse to follow this rabbit trail.

Please answer the question.

Thanks in advance,

Tax

Logic Lad said...

Trish

On top of Tax's question, questions from my post,

are you comfortable with slavery?

Do you think that abortion is wrong in all cases?

How can you square a god with the power that you ascribe to him having to kill thousands of innocents to make his point?

why should we not hold the ultimate arbiter of morality up to his own standard? indeed it could be argued that anyone that is prepared to sit in judgement on another should be held to an even higher standard than the ones he judges, he who is without sin and all that.

I look forward to your answers, this topic is particuarly important to me as these sorts of questions where the ones that convinced me to become an athiest.

profweather said...

Tax,

No one (including infants) has ever been as innocent as Jesus was and yet God crushed His own son on the cross. In fact, it pleased God to crush Jesus. At the same time, the most innocent person to ever live willing took upon Himself the fierce wrath of God’s anger so that God could remain just (and Holy) and the justifier (of the unholy). God can grant babies eternal life, after their physical death, as they were/are obviously unaware of their personal sin.

You, on the other hand, are well aware of your personal sin. And unless you repent and trust in Christ, all of the fierce wrath of God's anger, that fell on Christ, will fall on you...and it will never end. Biblically, it means you will have eternal death after your physical death.

Fish with Trish said...

Logic Lad, said, "are you comfortable with slavery?"

There are a few forms of "slavery", depends on which is meant.

Logic Lad, said, "Do you think that abortion is wrong in all cases?"

I do think abortion is wrong in all cases.

Logic Lad, said, "How can you square a god with the power that you ascribe to him having to kill thousands of innocents to make his point?"

I don't believe God HAD to kill thousands to make his point; but that God chose to make His point that way - since sinners don't deserve life, but life is a blessing and a gift, for the Creator to take away the lives of his creation - we'll, who am I to use the brain He gave me to try and out think God? I say God is just and right and holy - always - even if he slaughters me today.

The idea of a created being holding his Creator up to the standard that the Creator gave His creation, is 1) foolishly trying to be the judge of God, 2) not realizing that the Creator has a right to tell His creation not to destroy each other, while having the right at the same time as Creator of destroying his own creation when he wants - he is the Creator, we are the created...to not understand the implications of this, would cause someone to ask this question. God doesn't get on the stand for anyone -he puts us on the stand, when He wants, and for the reasons He wants - He is God...we are rebellious dust.

I’ll repeat the words of profweather to you, “…unless you repent and trust in Christ, all of the fierce wrath of God's anger, that fell on Christ, will fall on you...and it will never end. Biblically, it means you will have eternal death after your physical death.”

Now for the question logic lad: Where are you going when you die? What will you do when you will face God on Judgment Day? What will you do with what you have heard? We have shared the Gospel with you time and time again. Does it matter to you? Do you care that people are pleading with you? If you don’t care then I will stop. As Christians we are told "do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matt 7:6 So if someone doesn’t want to hear the gospel, then we are to move on. God has His elect. We, as Christians, can rest in that.

Taxandrian said...

@profweather:

You were actually making (quite a) good point, right up to the point where you ruined it all by resorting to fear tactics. That's when I knew you didn't even believe yourself what you were saying

Here's some information: if you think you have a good point, don't try to coerce someone into believing it by trying to scare them. Trust me: it makes you look silly and insecure. If the point you are making is really valid it should be able to stand on its own merit without the addiction of fear tactics.

Please try again.

Cheers,
Tax

profweather said...

@ Tax,

I wasn't making a point at all. I was just saying what the Bible says.

Fear is not necessarily a bad thing. The Bible also says you are to fear God. Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I will add, you should not repent of your sins and trust in Christ because of the fear of God (and hell) but repent and trust because He was kind and merciful to save you from hell.

He literally saves sinners from Himself and His wrath. It is the kindest offer you will ever receive.

But it will also be the hardest thing you will ever do, which is to humble yourself before God. If you do not see yourself as a sinner and in need of forgiveness, He will not save you. He did not call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

Logic Lad said...

Trish

Do i need to give you a deffinition of slavery before you will answer the question? Ok how about this then, what forms of slavery are you comfortabel with? please explain at what point you feel slavery becomes acceptable?

so abortion is wrong, even in the cases of rape or where medicaly it is the only thing that will save the mother? Some of the first born of egypt will only just have been born, so abortion is wrong, but killing them as soon as they pop out is fine?

So God gets to act as a mass murdering tyrant, for no other reason than because he is a bit miffed, and you cheerlead for him.

For there to be justice the one doing the judging must be accountable to the same laws as the judged, I don't care how powerful the judge is, he may be able to force his will on me but that will not make him right only stronger. You are making a strong case for might makes right. How much respect do you have for the Cop who breaks the law, he may be able to get away with it but it still dosn't make what he does right.

Trish, I am sure it will not come as a surprise to you to know that when I die i am going no where, 'there is no hell below us above us only sky' as the song says. In the extremly unlikely event that some higher power calls on me to account for the actions of my life i will stand as i am, a considerate, but flawed, human, empathic, loving and curious. I will stand and ask what right that the creature before me has to judge me, when he gives no evidence of his existence, and more to the point lifts not a finger to save when he has the power to do so.

I appreciate that you believe and care about saving people, i am still waiting for a convincing argument. waving a 2000 year old book about and threatening people with eternal damnamtion will work on some, but not on others, if you really want to get through to more people you need to consider changing you tactics a little. Persoanlly i don't think that we are less wise and knowledgeable than out ancestors and i don't react well to threats, they are the last resort of a poor argument.

If this means that i am no longer worthy of being responded to or if you want to stop allowing my posts that is your choice, I personally enjoy these conversations I am learning things here, just not being won over, but it is your blog do as you see fit.

profweather said...

@ Logic

Slavery is how the Bible defines it. You are a slave of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness. For the Christian our old self was crucified with Christ, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin.

A person who has not repented and trusted in Christ is a slave to sin. An unbelieving person cannot do anything but sin. An evidence of this is the arrogance of demeaning God by calling Him a creature. He is the creator. You are the creature.

God has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, Logis Lad who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory.

God has done much more than “lift a finger.” Jesus said that when He is lifted up from the earth, He will draw all men to Himself. He said this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die and that was by crucifixion. You cannot come to God unless you first come to Jesus.

Someone has to pay the penalty for your innumerable sins against a Holy God; either you or a substitute. God, in his mercy, poured out his wrath against sin on Jesus. But if you do not think you need someone to pay your sin penalty then Christ is of no use to you.

And if he is of no use to you, why then do you even care? Why be considerate and loving? You might as well eat, drink and be merry. But that is the reason for your objection. Your “love and consideration” is so you can boast before God of your own glory (so to speak) and your own praise. It is your pride that is a foul stench in the nostrils of God. (I’m using Anthrophomorphic language–The Bible calls God a Spirit)

Like Trish, it is as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made Christ who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Repent today. It is the kindest offer you will ever receive.

Taxandrian said...

Trish said:

I do think abortion is wrong in all cases.

Really? In ALL cases?
So in case God chooses to abort babies, that's wrong too?

Taxandrian said...

@profweather:

I wasn't making a point at all. I was just saying what the Bible says.

Oh OK. Sorry, my bad.

Fear is not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed, as long as we're talking about rational fear. It's rational to fear a snake as long as you don't know whether it's deadly or not. It's rational to be afraid to cross a bridge over a canyon if you are not sure it's secure.
Why? Because I have access to objectively verifiable information that supports my reason to fear. There's plenty of information available that tells me that snakebites or falling from great heights are quite deadly.
So yes, fear is not necessarily a bad thing, on the contrary: it can be a life-saver.

The Bible also says you are to fear God.

Now this is irrational fear. No objectively verifiable information that proves the existence of God or Hell is available. No one can prove substantially that not believing in God will send someone to Hell for all eternity. All we have are some words in a book.
To illustrate with an analogy; suppose someone walks up to you on the streets, presents you with a helmet and says: "Here, you'll need to wear this to protect yourself from invisible pigs falling from the sky."
Would you put the helmet on your head?
There's your answer.

He literally saves sinners from Himself and His wrath. It is the kindest offer you will ever receive.

That's some twisted form of kindness. To me that's just: "My way or the highway (to Hell)".

But it will also be the hardest thing you will ever do, which is to humble yourself before God.

Indeed it would be very hard for me to humble myself before a God that intentionally kills babies only to convince a man He made unconvincible to begin with. To be blatantly honest: I can't do that, because I do not find such a God worth worshipping.

So how about you, profweather? Why do you worship a God that kills babies? How can you trust such a God? If He can do anything He wants, and it's still good, how do you know he won't send you to Hell anyway?
In the end it simply doesn't matter whatever you do or believe.

Taxandrian said...

profweather said:

God has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Well, there you go again: another reason to simply not believe.
After all; it might very well be that God hardens Logic Lad's heart (and mine).
If this is the case (and you will never be able to determine it isn't), then you are going AGAINST God's will by keeping on trying to convince us.

Are you willing to take that risk? Do you think God will reward you for going against His will?

You see, profweather, that's the problem: if God can do anything you can be sure of nothing. You can believe in what you think is right, but you can never be sure. After all, like Trish said: do you think you can out-think God?

So since you cannot be sure that what you believe in is true, why believe at all?

Cheers,
Tax

profweather said...

@ Tax

Thank you for your honesty. The short answer to your last paragraph is “I worship the creator because He is worthy of worship.”

The long answer...Creation is evidence of a creator. It is illogical to think that all we see came about from nothing in and of itself. It is a scientific impossibility that nothing exploded and created everything.

(As an aside...Since in every explosion we observe the result brings dis-order then we should be able to calculate how big an explosion needs to be so that it reverses that disordering aspect and results in ordering and coming together of material as we see it in the Universe. Logic dictates that at some critical mass, an explosion would create order if the “big bang” were true.)

From creation, we know this about the creator...He is all powerful. Since He made it once, He can do it again, any part or all of it.

He is all-present. Since He created the Universe, He is neither contained within it nor confined outside of it.

He is all-knowing. Since there is order to this creation, there is a purpose for it all as it has been thought out.

But this is about all we can tell from creation about the creator. To learn more about Him He needs to reveal Himself as these first three attributes also mean He can hide Himself from our knowledge.

This is where faith come in. I believe that since He is able to preserve a record of His involvement in the Universe. He did this through the nation of Israel. While this is anecdotal it is still valid.

The reason Jews today celebrate Passover is because their parents did so and their parents before them, etc. Eventually you will get to the people who saw God's judgment on Egypt. If those events did not occur, the tradition today would have long ago vanished because someone would have investigated it and found it out to be a fraud.

The same goes for the disciples of Jesus. They saw and ate with Jesus after His crucification. The disciples would not have chosen to spread Christianity and die as a martyr if it were a lie.

What they saw and wrote about is how we know so much more about the Creator. We know God is just, kind, merciful, wrathful, generous, jealous, loving, unchangeable, forgiving, the list goes on. We know what He can require of us since He made us. And this is why I worship Him because I believe the stories told of God and Jesus as found in the Bible. And since I have broken His laws I am deserving of Hell but He saved me as demonstration for eternity of His mercy and kindness. And this makes Him worthy of worship.

And even if He would send me to Hell when I die, He is still worthy of my worship for who He is.

Logic Lad said...

Prof

Thanks for your response,

When I was talking about slavery i was not talking about some metaphysical bunkum about being a slave to sin, or a slave to god. I was talking about the physical ownership of one human by another, as is allowed by the bible as long as they are from another tribe. Now do you think that it is morally and ethically correct to own slaves or not?

Of course I have the ability to question anyone and anything, It may be that some one / thing is beyond my ability to effect so my questioning may well be mute. however, as i have said before, simply because someone is stronger than me does not make them right. Just becuase your god, as far as you beleive, has the ability to damn me for all eternity does not mean that such an act is moral or just. The whole concept of 'god says it is just therefore it is just' is so logicall flawed that it is almost beneath contempt, so if someone told you that god said is was just to murder children then you would be happy to pick up the axe? or would you apply some of that secular morality that would suggest that such an act is abhorent to any intelligent person?

Daily your god fails or refuses to exercise even a tiny part if his supposed vast power to help those who have bowed and scrapped to him for all of their lives, and the fact he is so unjust as to pour his wrath onto his own child, who was innocent of the crimes for which he was punished is just further evidence that he is an angry amoral tyrant

The only one who has to pay for my 'sins' are me, if any of them are actionable i will be tried by a court, infront of my peers and be punished in proportion to my crime, that is what justice is, what you and your god seem to relish in is vengence.

You have the front to accuse me of pride. Christian dogma is riddled with hubris and false modesty, you beleive that you are so special that an entire existence was created for your benefit and that you, as an individual, are so important that a being capabale of creating said existence watches over your every move, now that is real pride and arrogance. I on the other hand recognise that i am an insignificant biological blob on a lump of rock, like billions of others. I am happy with the knowledge because it does not deminish the awe i feel about the universe around me. You consider me prideful because i question your beliefs, however you have yet to offer one solitary fact to convince me that your god exists.

I am considerate and loving because it is an evolutionary benefit to a pack animal to show compassion and aid others of the pack, I don't need some vengeful father figure to threaten me into doing the right thing, i use my empathy and the golden rule. If the only thing that stops you from performing evil is the fear of your punishment in the afterlife then you are not moral, you are mercenary, your good deeds are only done for how they benefit yourself, not because they are the right thing to do.

I appreciate that my words above may appear harsh, but i am trying to provoke a reaction, I am interested in how you resolve this moral question.

I understand that you believe you are doing god's work, however untill you can demonstrate that there is a god in the firat place any offers you make are fairl hollow.

Logic Lad said...

Prof

Just becuase we don't know how this universe started does not mean that it must have been made by the abrahamic god, all you are doing is replacing 'I don't know' with 'god did it' you arn't answering anything. Your explanation of the big bang does indeed make no sense, hence it is probably not true, and if we where in Oz that argument would be looking for a brain.

You are quite right creation implies a creator, however there is no evidence that the universe was created, using your deffinition of the word, only that it exists.

you said 'He is all powerful. Since He made it once, He can do it again, any part or all of it.' surely even you can see that this is argument is deeply flawed, you still havn't proved your premis, ie that an intelligent entity created the universe, all you are doing here is wildly specualting.

Just out of interest how do you come to the conclusion that youe god is all present and all knowing? as far as i can see you are just stating these things as true without evidence.

Prof can you really think that all traditions are completly unchanged and accurate to original meaning? I mean you know christmas was borrowed from an earlier relgion to make it easier to get converts. Not to mention for a long time anyone even questioning a religious ritual would have been ostacised of worse. even today in plenty of places if I where to ask the quesitons I do I could be killed. so I think suggesting that people would investigate and find it false is a little foolish to say the least.

All of your apparent evidence is annecdotal, at best, and all comes from a single source. a source that we know has been edited and translated many times. without some good third party supporting evidence there is no compelling reason to believe it.


You said 'I worship Him because I believe the stories told of God and Jesus as found in the Bible'

And that is the rub, you believe, you don't have proof, and that is just fine, as long as you accept that you have no proof and stop trying to convince people that you do.

Anyway i am still waiting for an answer about slavery?

profweather said...

@ Logic,

First the slave issue. I have never heard any sermon in my 50+ years concerning the issue of slavery. But I just found one by John MacAuthur. You can view the sermon here. You can read the transcript here. In short he says “If you’re a master, you conduct your care of the slaves in a Christ-honoring way.  If you’re a slave, you conduct your life in a Christ-honoring way.  The New Testament doesn’t condemn it, doesn’t condone it, but it regulates it by calling for the highest kind of Christ-honoring conduct.  And therefore the New Testament condemns all abuses on both sides."

I challenge you to give it a listen and follow along with the transcript so you can hear the emphasis which often lost when one just reads. The timer on the video says it is nearly two hours but it really only last for about one hour. MacAuthur will provide you with the best answer you can receive concerning God, the Bible and slavery.


Secondly, If you cannot see the extreme complexity of creation as evidence of a Creator with your own eyes, I am not able to help you further. My cell phone is comprised of hundreds, it not thousands of components and if I were to tell you that it evolved all by itself, you would call me a fool. Yet, one leaf on a tree or blade of grass is way more complex in its construction than my cell phone and the evolutionist says the leaf had evolved. That is foolishness. That is why the Bible says “The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God'”.

The issue is not whether there is a God or not. You know there is one as He has made it evident to you. You are suppressing that knowledge in unrighteousness. If you allow for a Creator, then you instinctively know you will need to answer to Him. And like all who are in your position, you love your sin and you do not want to give it up.

You instinctively know it is wrong to lie, steal, look with lust, disobey your parents and break the rest of the Ten Commandments. Each and every child born in the world needs to be taught NOT to do those things. If it were “an evolutionary benefit to a pack animal to show compassion and aid others of the pack” (to love your neighbor as yourself, so to speak) those bad attributes would have been removed thousands of years ago by natural selection.

You will keep on hearing, but will not understand. And you will keep seeing, but not perceive. For your heart has become dull. With your ears you scarcely hear. And you have closed your eyes. Otherwise you might see with your eyes, and hear with your ears and understand in your heart and repent.

You will deny all of this of course but you have God's word on it. At this point we will need to agree to disagree.

Logic Lad said...

Prof

I will try to watch the video, and thanks for the link.

I am not surprised that you can find little contemporary religious thought on slavery. Surprisingly when the world generally decided that slavery was an evil and unhumane thing then the church , oh so quietly, followed suite. There are clearly parts of the bible that condone slavery, so my question, for about the third time, is do you consider slavery acceptable or not?

I find it interesting that one sermon you could find doesn't actually say slavery is wrong, just how to deal with being a slave. so much for the vaunted kindness and humnanity of the church.

I love this canard, I would agree that suggestions that your mobile phone eveloved by it's self would be foolish, but when was the last time you saw two mobile phones making out? The big reason we don't need a god to understand the tremendous complexity of life is reproduction, allowing inherited characteristics to be past on. The good old theory of evolution happily explains 'the extreme complexity of creation' without resorting to a supernatural power. I am often told that just becuase I don't believe in god dosn't mean he is not real, a fair point but i would like to point out that just because you don't understand how a godless universe could exist dosn't mean that god does.

Again, I don't deny god I don't believe in him. I have sufficent respect for your intellectualy integrity to not accuse you only pretending to believe in god so please try and do the same for me.

Even after you attempt to call me a liar your argument makes no sense, even if there was proof positive of a creator it does not follow that i must worship him. his actions to date have been somewhere between homicidal and indifferent, not someone worthy of worship. I love my sin do I, does that actually mean anything? I live an honest and god life, i love my wife, i pay my taxes and i am considerate to my fellow man, i am not perfect but i try my best. What sin, accept the non belief in your fictional god, i am doing.

I agree with a few of the ten commandments, the ones that are about basic rules of society, no killing, stealing and lieing. however the first three are just part of a protection racket for religion and the rest seem to be an odd collection of instructions that are nearly impossible not to break, hence ensuring a constant job for all those forgiving priests. It is an advantage generally to follow the rules of the pack, however being able to break the rules so you get more and get away with it is an advantage for the individual. competiveness and putting one's self first also have a place in trying to get the most out of the world and sometimes people get the balance wrong. we call these people criminals, or mad. Most children are capable of empathy and can understand that doing something to someone that would make them sad is a 'bad' thing. yes we have to educate children, so society survives and so that every generation does not have to start from scratch, however it is important to remember that every child is an athiest until a parent teaches them about there diety of choice, there is nothing that self evident about any god that a child is born knowing there is one.

I am very open to any good evidence and arguments, you are simple failing to provide either. While i act in all ways as if there is no god I am not arrogant to say i know this is the case. i do not know the sum total of the knowledge in the universe. you seem very sure of your answers on roughly the same evidence that I am using so who is closed minded or hard hearted, in this case

I agree that neither of us seems to have signifcantly changed the opinion of the other but thats not why I was here, i don't care what you believe, i am interested in understanding how you defend these beliefs, I am gaining things from these exchanges, are you?

heath said...

profweather said: "It is a scientific impossibility that nothing exploded and created everything."

Ignoring the simplification here, answer this:

Do you believe it to be *more* of a "scientific possibility" that "nothing" happened and God just came into existence out of that nothing?

Or better yet, it makes more sense that your god just "always existed"?

Is it somehow MORE likely in your mind that something all-knowing and all-powerful came into existence out of nothing? Really?

Unless you can say that makes more sense, then the question you ask is moot.

God is an easy answer to fill in the questions more rationally answered with "I don't know for certain." That's what makes gods so popular, it's less scary to have an easy answer for literally everything, isn't it?

The "gods" are there to calm fears. When one stops fearing, one no longer needs those gods so much.

Micah said...

I was born, and raised primarily in Texas. Spent most of my youth in Southeast Texas, and it never hailed at my house.... unfortunately >.<

However down on the coast it was always raining, I loved the thunderstorms! Nothing like waking up in the middle of the night to a particularly nasty one that happens to shake the house in its thunderous fury.

Up here in Washington state, it doesn't rain nearly as much.... I miss Texas =(

Fish with Trish said...

Micah, if you ever move back...come to Dallas/Fort Worth and you can go street fishing with us every weekend. :-)

Micah said...

Yes I would definitely love to come visit if I move back down... Sounds great =) Thanks for the invite. =)